oneworldtalk

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

What has happened to these young men of US these days, who are blasting other students’ heads off with their handguns? Have they become berserk living in a highly stressed society.

The latest shooting on Feb 14 is the fourth within a week at an American school. This came in the wake of the deadliest shooting rampage in modern US history in April 2007 at Virginia Tech, a university in Blacksburg, Virginia when a gunman killed 32 people and himself.

The shootings in US schools this month are:

* Feb 8: A female student shot two other women before turning the gun on herself at a Baton Rouge college in Louisiana.

* Feb 11: A 17-year-old, Corneilous Cheers, shot a 19-year-old student during his gym class in a high school in Memphis, Tennessee. It was a result of an argument between the two.

* Feb 12: A 15-year-old student, Lawrence King, was declared brain dead after he was shot in the back of his head in a computer lab at E.O. Green Junior High School in California. A 14-year-old suspect fled, but was nabbed a few blocks from the shooting soon after.

* Feb 14: A 27-year-old graduate and former student, Stephen Kazmierczak shot dead 5 students in a science class at Northern Illinois University near Chicago. In all 21 people were shot before he turned one of his four guns on himself.

The problem with all these shootings is the gun culture in US where anybody can own and purchase firearms to shoot anything. Apparently 25% of adults in US personally own a gun and about half of adult US population live in households with guns. The US gun culture dates back to the revolutionary war and to protect themselves against hostile Native Americans. Are these justifications still valid in modern America as there is no need to use guns as weapons for defence against intruding enemies anymore?

Meddy · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 316 Location: Resort

Curbing the proliferation of guns would certainly help to reduce fatal shootings in schools. However, this has to go hand in hand with redressing inadequacy of health and social support system. There could be some depressed individuals whose conditions deteriorate due to the lack of treatment, counselling and support. If left unchecked, the problem could worsen and lead to more deaths of innocent students in future.

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

Little Egret:

Meddy · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 316 Location: Resort

How many people have to die before they take strong actions to ban firearms. The thinking that everyone needs guns to protect themselves from criminal and wackos having guns is seriously flawed. It's like a mutally assured destruction approach to problem solving. In this case, the problem grows bigger.

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

smalltok said:

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

Little Egret: I believe you just project the feelings of hopelessness in light of a threatening situation where a deranged and armed neighbour coming for your life. It helps having a gun to disarm the situation. Mao's dictum: "Power comes from the barrel of the Gun!" When authorities cannot protect you, then you need to protect yourself and your family. Perhaps Singapore is a highly regulated place where there is very strict gun control. However, in countries where law and order has broken down, it helps to have fire power. I believe such power in the hands of responsible people who are sane and have good judgement.

The abilities to use nuclear bombs reside with a few countries and I can only say that there are strict procedures to follow before a nuclear bomb is to be used. Yes, the people who pull the trigger have the responsibility for the final kill!

Meddy:

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

smalltok wrote:

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

Possession of the gun or any firepower allows one to have power, be that as an individual or as a state. Mao knew that having a gun or any firepower allowed him to overpower and control his enemies. Having a gun as a responsible owner allows me to have control of an otherwise indefensible situation as being cornered by a deranged gunman. Not everyone in US has a gun. To buy one legally, you need a background check by local enforcement authorities and a training to use the firearm. People kill and not guns. Careless people who leave their guns around unattended have caused unnecessary deaths of playful kids. Knives, chainsaws, cars, etc can kill in the wrong hands. Should we control their use?

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

If the criminal, or a deranged person, has a gun and you too have a gun. There is no guarantee that you can defend yourself against him. He’ll probably shoot you first before you can even move your hand to retrieve your gun hidden in your bag, unless, of course you’re the Bill Cassidy of yesteryear, a fictional cowboy hero who could beat all odds.

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

In US, if you enter/break into my house armed and with a gun, you bet I can shoot to kill you. It is justifiable homicide. On the other hand, I cannot shoot to kill you when you are outside my house. I could then be charged for manslaughter. My house is indeed my castle.

Most people keep a loaded gun ready when they go to bed if they are gun lovers. They do not have to be Bill Cassidy but rather like John Wayne. You need to train yourself to shoot straight with frequent trips to the practice/shooting range. That way, you learn not to miss a target if you draw your gun.

TT Ruby · Joined: 24 Mar 2007 Posts: 306 Location: Natural Habitat

My friends used to work in Indochina and carrying a gun around and keeping one by the pillow side were part and parcel of daily living. They were necessary for protecting one's life and possessions no matter how insignificant, were worth the risk of thiefs in countries inflicted by severe poverty.

I have heard the story of an American lady friend who would never failed to show off her pistol by polishing or loading it whenever her daughter's date comes to the house to pick her up. It proved to be an effective and crystal clear statement to the boys - don't mess round and act responsibly, or else ...

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

smalltok, all those shootings that kill innocent people occur in schools and other public places and not in anybody’s house.

You seem to be very trigger happy with your bedside gun which probably won’t be needed at all. The criminals in US would know the law just as you do. They will shoot you outside your house and not inside.

How then can those students in Northern Illinois University protect themselves from the intruder’s gun(s), if those students have guns kept under pillows at home? I’m still perplexed how anyone can be safe in America even though you may not step on anyone’s toes in public.

XP · Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 565 Location: Beautiful Island

The US government should confiscate all fire arms and start from a baseline zero. Then re-register everyone who wishes to own guns. They will start on a clean slate. The authorities can approve or reject the application and have a complete record to track all gun owners who must meet certain criteria. However, this may not be feasible given the massive resources required to collect all firearms in circulation, including some that are undeclared and underground. Not many people would be willing to return their arms in such a scenario. The fact remains that the gun dealers have a strong lobby and would not allow this to happen.

orange blossom · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 1052 Location: Australia

There are some lessons in Australia's handling of shooting incidents that USA could learn to minimize the chances of shooting and fatalities if it does occur.

Read under Global Concerns :

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/australian-lessons-on-university-shooting-t869.html#2669

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

XP:

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

It was a gun scare in February this year. Now this month, it is a bomb scare in a dormitory in the University of California, Davis. 455 first-year students were evacuated from the dormitories after a tip-off.

Police have arrested a 19-year-old economics major on charges of possessing chemicals and materials to make explosives on school grounds.

The gun culture in US seems to be developing into a greater and more scary bomb culture.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0646813120080307

XP · Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 565 Location: Beautiful Island

Guns are psychopath's mode of operation whereas bombs are more the tools of terrorist. Now there is an added problem - not just gun control.
Perhaps the authorities should also control the sale of chemicals and explosives.
Beware, this may even give rise to copy cat cases.
Boy, Americans would have to put up with all such life threatening situations.

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

No one can deny USA is a violent country born of a history of violence towards its natives, its minorities and the tactics used today are not very different from those early days, but better killing machines. On top of all, USA is spreading its violent culture throughout the world in the name of entertainment/cultural arts via Hollywood. Ways of killing, mutilation of corpses, mass destruction of human lives and values are perpetuated via movies made in Hollywood. We also see that in cheap Kung Fu movies made in Hong Kong, all themes of mass and easy killings. Hollywood is also spreading a culture that is anti-family and free love, and sad to say, most younger generations of Asians/Middle Easterners are buying it wholesale. The easy access of these movies via the Internet further aggravates the dilemma that 'conservative' governments in Asia and Middle East are facing.

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

The US Supreme Court is now pondering over the issue of gun rights which had been entrenched in the US culture since the early cowboy days. It’s time it does so before more people, including college students, die under the gun fire.

Here are some extracts from Agence France-Presse - Wednesday, March 19

Little Egret · Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Posts: 500

US Supreme Court has ruled that Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms ending a ban on owning arms in the capital city. The court’s 5-4 landmark decision is based on the 2nd Amendment of US Constitution which guarantees citizens the right to keep guns at home for self-defence.

In my view the decision is somewhat flawed, because it has not addressed the wider issue of citizens carrying guns outside the home for offence rather than for defence. How does the 2nd Amendment protect innocent people in schools, colleges and in places where people gather from being killed by individuals who buy guns easily on the pretext of defending himself at home?

US citizens can expect more gunfire in Washington from now.

smalltok · Joined: 20 Mar 2007 Posts: 264 Location: USA

Little Egret: Let us examine your quotes.