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 Post subject: Barack Obama
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:33 am
Posts: 125
Location: One World
Who is Barack Obama?

Forum participants have offered their opinions :
- skilled politican adept at rhetoric and campaigning
- an ex-Muslim
- an unpolished gem
- man of vision and promise
- all talk and no action
- inexperienced

Discussions in these threads :

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/view ... =2611#2611

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=811

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=703

What is your take?
Register and join the forum. It's free.


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 Post subject: Bush has paved the way for Obama
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:34 am 
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These days, George W Bush gets the blame (or credit) for the rise of populist presidential hopeful Obama. There are simply too many mistakes that people wish to undo that many would vote for "change". Is it for better or for worse? As a culture of mudslinging becomes further entrenched, things can turn really ugly. Is this the price to pay for a free wheeling media and the creative works of spin doctors (or demolition experts)?

Quote:
The politics of personal destruction. A style of campaigning involving attack ads, dirty tricks and virulent biographies written by hacks.

No one is more familiar with this phenomenon - or more often its target - than Hillary Clinton. In a score of recent books and a hundred blogs, the slanders have escalated to accusations of her being a lesbian murderer, yet that hasn't stopped members of her team - hopefully without her knowledge or approval - dishing out the dirt on Barack Obama.

And we ain't seen nothing yet. Whoever wins the Democratic presidential nomination will be smeared with filthy rumours and allegations by Republicans employing the Tricky Dicky-Karl Rove handbook.

Being targeted by bloggers is bad enough. But if Obama wins the nomination, he'll be targeted, full stop. Because in the US the politics of personal destruction frequently leads to being shot. I raised the possibility - the probability - of attempts on Obama's life in this column a month ago, reminding readers of the reluctance of Teddy Kennedy to follow in his brothers' footsteps and the decision by Colin Powell (and his wife) not to contend for the big job. Not in a society that experienced more than 100 years of lynching, of Ku Klux Klan terror, of murders committed during the civil rights struggle, including the deaths of Martin Luther King Jr and Malcolm X.

Listing the scores of assassinations and attempts that have haunted the US presidency, I suggested that now any number of racist maniacs, enraged by the prospect of a black president, must be plotting to kill the Democratic front-runner. As past assassinations (and numerous close calls) remind us, no president can be totally protected.

No country since ancient Rome has experienced the killing of so many leaders. The subject came up when I was preparing to interview the author of The New Rome?, a fine piece of political writing by Cullen Murphy, managing editor of The Atlantic Monthly for more than 20 years. He was concerned that I'd raise the issue of Obama being assassinated because every Australian interviewer had done so. In contrast, he said, no one in the US media has raised the possibility.

I copped the blame, knowing of no other Australian commentator who had raised the issue. And I knew I would have self-censored if my column appeared in a US paper rather than The Australian. As many US journalists must be doing. To discuss even the possibility of an Obama assassination in the US would be asking for trouble. Throwing accelerant on the flames of insanity in a nation with a blood-soaked history, with far more than its share of home-grown terrorists and far too many guns.

What's happening in US politics is marvellous. A few decades ago it was deemed impossible for even a Catholic, let alone a Jew, to run for the White House. John F. Kennedy overcame that first taboo and, to his credit, Al Gore recruited the Jewish Joe Lieberman as his running mate. Now we've seen an African American, a woman and a Mormon contending in the primaries. (Incidentally, a woman and an African American ran together for the presidency in 1872. Victoria Woodhull and the great black leader Frederick Douglass were running mates for the Equal Rights Party.)

The extraordinary success of Obama in state after state all across the US is testament to the regained vitality of American democracy. And the changing dynamics and demographics have been boosted by George W. Bush in two dramatically different ways.

Bush recruited two African Americans for the highest level of his administration: Powell and Condoleezza Rice. At the same time, the awful example of presidential fundamentalism has shocked Americans within the Pentecostal movement as well as the wider world. With many young Christians abandoning their parents' extremism, the ground is shifting. In this context, Obama is seen as embodying the change that the US needs. To vote for an African American - as even whites in the deepest southern states are doing - is to deeply bury the despised Bush administration and seek, yes, reconciliation.

Of course, there are other reasons for the Obama phenomenon: a raft of issues from Iraq to the economy. But Obama's dream run is also symptomatic of America's celebrity culture. He's as famous an African American as Oprah and OJ, and a far greater and fresher celebrity than Clinton, let alone poor old John McCain. Add youth culture to celebrity culture and you have a double whammy. In this fight, Obama is JFK while Clinton and McCain are Richard Nixon.

Obama believes himself to be part of a post-racial US. Not so. His race is crucial to his appeal, charisma, sales pitch and symbolism. He will win because he's black, not despite it. Let us hope that maniacal racists in the US do not exact a terrible vengeance.


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 83,00.html


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 Post subject: The Democrats are doing some fancy dances now!
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:28 pm 
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The Democrats are also on a self destruct mode and this is perhaps due to the nature of election campaigning done, only in USA (you say!), a highly prolonged and expensive process unknown anywhere in the world. So far the hoopla and enthusiasm for Obama is among African Americans and liberal upper middle class whites. I believe he is most likely the Democrats' nominee this November. Orange Blossom has it right:

Quote:
And we ain't seen nothing yet. Whoever wins the Democratic presidential nomination will be smeared with filthy rumours and allegations by Republicans employing the Tricky Dicky-Karl Rove handbook.


The red necks are not out yet to kick the Democrats' butts. My bet is on the Republicans to retain the White House.


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 Post subject: Money better spent elsewhere
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:34 am 
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Only in the USA is campaigning such an expensive affair. I'm sure the money could be better spent in upgrading social amenities and charitable work, not just smearing the opponents. Hasn't McCain also got a taste of smearing recently over his alleged romantic liaisons with a party campaign volunteer. It is unfortunate that dirty tricks and juicy gossips often work wonders in bringing down political rivals.


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 Post subject: Flush with Campaign Funds
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:31 am 
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Obama is outspending Mrs. Clinton by a significant margin from Texas, Ohio, Vermont to Rhode Island. Obama campaign officials were still tabulating their numbers and said only that their total was “considerably more” than the $35 million that Senator Clinton’s campaign announced Thursday that it had raised in February. In January, Obama brought in $36 million and Mrs. Clinton raised just under $14 million.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/po ... te.html?hp


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 Post subject: Republican Playbook against Obama
PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:58 am 
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Republican Tactics - the worse is yet to be?

Quote:
... if Mr. Obama becomes the Democratic presidential nominee, he is sure to face an onslaught from Republicans and their allies that will be very different in tone and intensity from what he has faced so far.

....

Yet the shifting tone offers a glimpse of the Republican playbook as the party adapts to the prospect that it will be running against Mr. Obama rather than Mrs. Clinton.

It is a reminder that should Mr. Obama win the nomination, he will be playing on a more treacherous political battleground as his opponents — scouring through his record of votes and statements and his experiences before he entered public life — look for ways to portray him as out of step with the nation’s values, challenge his appeal to independent voters and emphasize his lack of experience in foreign policy and national security.

.....

Some of this will almost certainly take the shape of the Internet rumors and whispering campaigns that have popped up against Mr. Obama since he got into the race, like the false reports that he is Muslim. Others will no doubt come from the types of shadowy independent committees that have played a big role in campaigns in recent years.

....

But others will simply draw on Mr. Obama’s voting record and speeches, interviews and debate appearances. Mr. McCain’s aides said their first line of attack would be to portray him as a liberal, and they have already begun pointing to a rating in The National Journal, based on his votes, of Mr. Obama as the most liberal member of the Senate.

....

Though Mr. McCain has vowed repeatedly to wage a tough if respectful campaign — he chastised a conservative talk radio host this week for disparaging Mr. Obama and invoking his middle name — his aides have left no doubt that they will draw sharp distinctions with him on issues that Mrs. Clinton has never been able to use. Foremost among them is Iraq.

....

Others — like a suggestion that Mr. Obama opposed the USA Patriot Act or supported a ban on handguns — might be subject to dispute by Mr. Obama, who would argue they were yanked out of context or did not take into account the subtleties of shaping legislation. (Nuance is usually a weak defense in political campaigns.)

The fact that Mr. McCain felt compelled to rebuke some critics of Mr. Obama over the past few days suggests he might see a danger in attacking too aggressively.

But Mr. McCain clearly will not control all of the voices that could oppose Mr. Obama, from bloggers and talk radio hosts to other elected officials. Even parts of the Republican Party apparatus can transmit messages that the presidential nominee cannot or will not.

....

David Axelrod, a senior adviser to Mr. Obama, said tactics used effectively against Senator John Kerry in 2004 and Vice President Al Gore in 2000 would not work against Mr. Obama.

....

Mrs. Clinton has been arguing for months that she would be the stronger opponent against the Republicans than Mr. Obama because her record is already well known and his is not. This is part of the case Mrs. Clinton has been making to Democratic superdelegates in the final stand of the campaign.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/29/us/po ... anted=2&hp


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 Post subject: The Race Drags On ...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:29 am 
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鷸 蚌 相 爭 , 漁 翁 得 利 。
Yu Bang Xiang Zheng, Yu Weng De Li.
Chinese proverb :
Whilst the sandpiper and the clam continue to fight, the fisherman catches both

As the Clinton-Obama battle continues, the candidates may be doing Democrat Party a disservice as McCain could turn out be the winner, either the proverbial fisherman or the tortoise who has the last laugh when he wins the race.

Clinton's hopes to continue in the race were kept alive with her victory in the Ohio contest, the first time victory in many state contests in recent weeks.


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 Post subject: Is America ready for a Black or Woman President?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:00 pm 
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Location: New Zealand
The question I would like to ask is:

"Is the American people ready for a Black (pardon me for using this term) or a Woman President?

I think the American people are in a dilemma. Most would want the Democrats to replace the Republicans,
but they may not be ready to accept any of the candidates offered by Democrats. So, they may simply
vote for McCain.

But if they really wanted a change so badly, then they have to settle either for Obama or Hillary.
The American Blacks my fully support Obama but I don't believe the Whites would do so, may be only
a few would do.

The irony is that if they select Hillary as the Democrats candidate, then most probably she would
lose to McCain because McCain knows her too well and will be able to handle her with ease.

As I see it, if Obama were to be selected as the Democrats candidate, then he would easily take
on John McCain - for one thing, the huge difference in age.

It would be in Singapore's interest to push for the Republicans to retain the Presidency. However,
personally I would like Obama to win because he is the only one that symbolizes REAL CHANGE not
only for the American people but also for the whole world!

If Obama becomes the next US President, he not only makes American History but also World History.
Geo-Politics would be able to move into a new and different chapter. Is the world ready to see
this great change? Who really knows? It's all dependent upon the people of USA!


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 Post subject: American Presidential Model -- Singapore's Interest
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:24 am 
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Are you an ex-Singaporean living in Kiwi land?

MM LKY admitted his preference for McCain to stay the course in Iraq and maintain American involvement and power balance in the world. However, my fellow Singaporean friends seem to be impressed by Obama and the change he might bring. However, the question is change into what? Is change always good -- especially in areas when there's nothing wrong, and don't need to be fixed. After Obama is elected, would he be able to fulfil his promises?

I'm not sure if Hilary would lose necessarily lose to McCain as she could be a compromise between Obama and McCain.
At this point, the American electorate may not have made a firm decision on who they would vote as president.
I'm not the expert. Hopefully our forumers from America could give you a better idea of the situation.

I will be starting another thread on the Singapore presidency in the light of Minister George Yeo's question if the American system will throw up the best president. I'm sure he has Singapore's model of presidency in mind. Stay tuned.


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 Post subject: Re: American Presidential Model -- Singapore's Interest
PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:50 pm 
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Hot Chilly wrote:
Are you an ex-Singaporean living in Kiwi land?

MM LKY admitted his preference for McCain to stay the course in Iraq and maintain American involvement and power balance in the world. However, my fellow Singaporean friends seem to be impressed by Obama and the change he might bring. However, the question is change into what? Is change always good -- especially in areas when there's nothing wrong, and don't need to be fixed. After Obama is elected, would he be able to fulfil his promises?

I'm not sure if Hilary would lose necessarily lose to McCain as she could be a compromise between Obama and McCain.
At this point, the American electorate may not have made a firm decision on who they would vote as president.
I'm not the expert. Hopefully our forumers from America could give you a better idea of the situation.

I will be starting another thread on the Singapore presidency in the light of Minister George Yeo's question if the American system will throw up the best president. I'm sure he has Singapore's model of presidency in mind. Stay tuned.



Hi Hot Chilly,

Yes, I am a temporary resident in NZ.

You are right that LKY is trying very hard to influence the US public to vote for the Republicans making use of
the Iraq issue as the anchor point. But personally, I think that the Iraq issue cannot be the main issue to the
American voters. The masses everywhere in the world are usually very ignorant of international affairs. They
are more interested in bread and butter issues. It is the elites and the rich in any society who are afraid of the
outcome of any election because of their own selfish interests (not so much as their interests for the common
good of their people). As far as Iraq is concerned, the US has to pull out sooner or later, irrespective of whether
it is McCain or Hillary or Obama becoming the next President, otherwise the US will literally and financially bleed
to death - for Iraq has slowly become another Vietnam. It's already 5 years. How many more years can the US
continue to stay in Iraq at the cost of $200 million a day?

I can recall when the British was about to withdraw from Singapore, the argument to retain the British Forces was
because of Vietnam and the Dominoe theory that the whole of SE Asia would become Communist. Have the whole
of SE Asia become communist today? The British did not buy that argument. The British simply left because of the
overwhelming economic consideration. They British were getting broke!

Now, similar arguments have been put forth for the US to stay in Iraq. The question is: Is the US willing to see
another Vietnam? Which may turn out to be another embarrassing defeat for the US. Therefore, it is better to get
the hell out of there as fast as possible before getting sunk into the quagmire deeper and deeper. Of course, when
we say get the hell out of there, any sensible person would want to pull out systematically instead of leaving the
place in a mesh. The ground troops have to be pulled out in stages, while other non-critical elements pull out first.

This is how I see the Iraq situation can be handled: The US should adopt the "Hit and Run" strategy. When things
are going out of hands, move in the Air Force combined with a Rapid Strategic Force and whack the hell out of them
and then get out immediately. Keep repeating like this and see what happens. That is the strategy being adopted by
the Israelis as well as the anti-US militants in Iraq. This is called Guerrilla Warfare on a large scale. There is no need
to deploy military forces physically (except advisers and trainers) in Iraq itself and suffer casualties every single day,
which is bad for morale. In order to maintain the strategic balance, the US can deploy forces in friendly countries such
as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Israel and Turkey, plus having one of two fleets in the Gulf region.

The argument that Iraq will become the base for the Al Qaeda is unfounded because the base of the Al Qaeda has
already been re-established in Afghanistan, with the help of Pakistan.

The argument that Iran will become stronger and stronger if the US vacate Iraq is also just an excuse. Whether the US
is there in Iraq or not, Iran will continue to become stronger and stronger in the Middle East for the mere fact that among
the Arabs, the Iranians are from superior stalks and under their present leadership the inspiration to gain back past glory
is mounting day by day; and their wealth is also growing day by day because of oil and natural gas. Moreover, the US
pull out from Iraq can be used as a bargaining card with the Iranians in negotiations in other areas.

Change into what? When people talk about change, what they mean is improvement to the old ways of doing things.

Is change always good? If change to improve things, of course it is good. But the question one should ask is:
Is the old ways of doing things always good?

To ask whether Obama would be able to fulfill his promises makes one looks naive. Because all politicians make promises
that sometimes they cannot keep, irrespective of whether it is McCain, Hillary, Obama, or Bush or Singapore's leaders.
In Singapore, we were promised the Swiss Standard of Living in 1990 by our PM during Election days but till today
we have yet to get our Swiss Standard of Living, although that PM has already stepped down 4 years ago. In fact, our
standard of living has gone down and down because the cost of living has gone up frighteningly and our wages have gone
down tremendously for the majority, except our ministers who have increased their own salaries and bonuses until they
have become the world's most highly paid ministers, for a population base of only 4.5 million.

On the question of capability, every US President has a team of consultants and advisers, plus a team of capable
secretaries of state, in addition to a Think Tank who fashion and develop policies for him. So, basically a US President
is simply a figure head. They are simply actors on the world stage. That's why the cowboy actor Ronald Reagan could
be elected and function quite well as one of the US Presidents. So, there is no need to question the capability of Obama,
McCain or Hillary. I believe the key ingredient of any Head of State is whether he can inspire the masses. In this case,
who can inspire the masses to act in tandem more than the other? And to answer this question, I think I will have to take
off my hat to Obama. Have you watch how he attracted and mesmerized the crowd in Portland? It was like the people
were being swept by a tidal wave! And if the US people failed to vote him into power, then they have missed the
opportunity of a life time, and they will have to wait again for another century for the next Abraham Lincoln
or John F Kennedy to come around.

Lastly, I look forward to your new thread on the Singapore Presidency vis-a-vis George Yeo's question on whether the
US System is the best in selecting the President. Frankly speaking, George Yeo has been a Foreign Minister for quite
some time now and he was also educated in the US. Therefore, I am very surprised that he has to ask such an obvious
question. You mean to say that he can't answer the question himself? It simply reflects to me that he is either very naive
or he is pretending. So, your answer to him should be:

"What is your motive of asking such a question?"


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:09 am 
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Voter_101 had suggested a small rapid strike force that was once advocated by Rumsfeld, the former defense secretary who planned and was responsible for the fiasco in Iraq. The Iraq war is an important lesson for any war or military strategists that you cannot just use an air force alone. You have to engage a sufficient land forces too. And in this case, Mao's theory of guerrilla warfare is far more superior. You need to win the heart and mind of the populace . The US lacks both and really have not learnt their lessons from the Vietnam war. Furthermore, Iraq is not a homogeneous country in terms of ethnic composition. The country was led to war based upon lies, thus for whatever reasons other than to maintain US honor ("you break it you own it".....Collin Powell), most US citizens would like to withdraw from Iraq immediately. Yes, the bread and butter issue is more of a concern to all voting citizens. Unemployment and house foreclosures are climbing and the economy is in recession and heading towards a depression. So whoever, heads the White House has to solve all these problems. The likelihood of who gets in has been discussed elsewhere.

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/unit ... .html#3091

Obama's link to Pastor Jeremiah A. Wright has so far not helped him at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkf ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fx ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDaO7N-J ... re=related

After all, the pastor said obnoxious things: The AIDS virus was created by the government; Louis Farrakhan is a great man; God damn America. Anyone who objects to that is justified. Anyone who asks why Obama remained in Wright's church for 20 years raises a fair question.

The Republicans will also find faults with his inexperience in foreign affairs and empty rhetoric. It will be an interesting November election if McCain has to face Obama.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:09 pm 
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smalltok wrote:
Voter_101 had suggested a small rapid strike force that was once advocated by Rumsfeld, the former defense secretary who planned and was responsible for the fiasco in Iraq. The Iraq war is an important lesson for any war or military strategists that you cannot just use an air force alone. You have to engage a sufficient land forces too. And in this case, Mao's theory of guerrilla warfare is far more superior. You need to win the heart and mind of the populace . The US lacks both and really have not learnt their lessons from the Vietnam war. Furthermore, Iraq is not a homogeneous country in terms of ethnic composition. The country was led to war based upon lies, thus for whatever reasons other than to maintain US honor ("you break it you own it".....Collin Powell), most US citizens would like to withdraw from Iraq immediately. Yes, the bread and butter issue is more of a concern to all voting citizens. Unemployment and house foreclosures are climbing and the economy is in recession and heading towards a depression. So whoever, heads the White House has to solve all these problems. The likelihood of who gets in has been discussed elsewhere.

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/unit ... .html#3091

Obama's link to Pastor Jeremiah A. Wright has so far not helped him at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkf ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prhnc2fx ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDaO7N-J ... re=related

After all, the pastor said obnoxious things: The AIDS virus was created by the government; Louis Farrakhan is a great man; God damn America. Anyone who objects to that is justified. Anyone who asks why Obama remained in Wright's church for 20 years raises a fair question.

The Republicans will also find faults with his inexperience in foreign affairs and empty rhetoric. It will be an interesting November election if McCain has to face Obama.



Hi, Smalltok,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your comment on my comment. In fact, I had wanted to forget about making a respond but after re-reading your comment today (3rd Feb 2009), I'd thought I need to clarify something within what you have said.

Firstly, I think you have misread and misunderstood what I have written. If you had read my comment thoroughly, you would have realised that I was recommending a "Guerrilla Warfare on a large scale" with the deployment of troops in friendly countries around Iraq instead of inside Iraq itself (similar to Mao's strategy of encircling the city using the surrounding villages as bases) and not the small rapid strike force using only the air force as stated by you. The Iraqis resistant movements are fighting a guerrilla warfare using hit and run tactics. You cannot fight a guerrilla warfare with the tactics of a conventional warfare and expect to win. You will definitely lose, and lose miserably in the long run.

This is what I said:

This is how I see the Iraq situation can be handled: The US should adopt the "Hit and Run" strategy. When things
are going out of hands, move in the Air Force combined with a Rapid Strategic Force and whack the hell out of them
and then get out immediately. Keep repeating like this and see what happens. That is the strategy being adopted by
the Israelis as well as the anti-US militants in Iraq. This is called Guerrilla Warfare on a large scale. There is no need
to deploy military forces physically (except advisers and trainers) in Iraq itself and suffer casualties every single day,
which is bad for morale. In order to maintain the strategic balance, the US can deploy forces in friendly countries such
as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Israel and Turkey, plus having one of two fleets in the Gulf region.


Even my mention of a Rapid Strategic Force is to be combined with the Air Force, and not using the Air Force by itself, alone. A Rapid Strategic Force is composed basically of infantry/marines with combat, artillery and logistics supports. They are ground troops that will do the mopping up after the Air Force has done its job in softening up the ground.

Secondly, whether Ramsfeld plans the invasion of Iraq and is responsible is for the fiasco is debatable. I am of the opinion that it has to be The Commander-in-Chief who should be responsible for any failure in Iraq. The problem in Iraq is not just confined to military or defence but includes other factors such as the terrain, the local resistance, the hatred of foreign troops occupy their land, the existence of militants arising mainly from the disbanded former Saddam's Armies, and the internal strife between the Shiite and the Sunis, etc. The problem is complex. Therefore, the military/defence should not be single out for the failure. Other departments in the Bush Administration as well as the Iraqis themselves must also be equally blamed for any failure.

Thirdly, what has Ramsfeld's advocation of a rapid strike force got to do with his being responsible for the fiasco in Iraq? One can advocate certain idea, concept, tactic, strategy, or doctrine but does that make him responsible for the failure of the whole war?

Fourthly, as for my comment on Obama, HISTORY has proved me right!


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 Post subject: History - we learn as we go - hopefully lessons will stick
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:23 am 
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Voter 101, it's good to see you back after a long lull.

Thanks for your clarification. The last straw that breaks the camel's back is usually economic consideration, as you've pointed out. The British probably thought that with the Americans bearing the bulk of the burden to contain communism in Southeast Asia, they could pack up and leave and let others shoulder the burden which proved to be a long drawn war.

I hope smalltok is reading your post. Work has prevented him from participating in forum matters these days. From my understanding, smalltok was concerned that the odds were stacked against the Obama campaign. The dirty tricks employed by the McCain campaign put tremendous pressure and there were times we all held our breath in the intensely contested race. Fortunately, the Americans have learnt some lessons from the past and were able to vote more rationally. I believe smalltok, like many Americans, was probably happy that Obama won the presidential elections.


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 Post subject: Voter 101....greetings!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Thank you Orange Blossom for providing the excuses for my absence.

Here are my responses to Voter 101

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/bara ... .html#6421

Voter 101

Quote:
I can recall when the British was about to withdraw from Singapore, the argument to retain the British Forces was because of Vietnam and the Dominoe theory that the whole of SE Asia would become Communist. Have the whole of SE Asia become communist today? The British did not buy that argument. The British simply left because of the
overwhelming economic consideration. The British were getting broke!

Now, similar arguments have been put forth for the US to stay in Iraq. The question is: Is the US willing to see another Vietnam?


Response: Bad argument indeed, Voter101. The intent was not to prevent a domino effect but to spread one (spread of “democracy”) and the result or quagmire was similar to Nam… an unwelcome invasion/occupation and hostile response from natives. You cannot equate Vietnam adventure to Iraq invasion/occupation. Purportedly with the intent to stop the domino theory ( of what…fear of Saddam’s future ability to conquer and spread secular ideas and Bath’s domination of Middle East, to the disgust of “friendly” dictatorial regimes like Saudi Arabia and Egypt), led to the US intervention as in Nam!? The wanton invasion of Iraq was a different story, bent more on many theories and ideas (historians have to settle on some after more info are disclosed when the secrecy acts are no more in effect), among many a son’s desire to punish Saddam for his attempt on Bush’s senior’s life, to start a democracy movement in Middle East with Iraq as the focal point, to prevent Iraq becoming extremely dominant, to control oil production and flow, to prevent Iraq as a focal point for WMDs and Al-Qaeda activities, etc. Of course, WMDs and Al-Qaeda presence were not substantiated as we know now.

Voter101:
Quote:
Which may turn out to be another embarrassing defeat for the US. Therefore, it is better to get the hell out of there as fast as possible before getting sunk into the quagmire deeper and deeper. Of course, when we say get the hell out of there, any sensible person would want to pull out systematically instead of leaving the place in a mesh. The ground troops have to be pulled out in stages, while other non-critical elements pull out first.

This is how I see the Iraq situation can be handled: The US should adopt the "Hit and Run" strategy. When things are going out of hands, move in the Air Force combined with a Rapid Strategic Force and whack the hell out of them and then get out immediately. Keep repeating like this and see what happens. That is the strategy being adopted by
the Israelis as well as the anti-US militants in Iraq. This is called Guerrilla Warfare on a large scale.


Response: A guerrilla war is normally imposed on an overwhelming invading/occupying force by a less weakly armed native force. The Americans cannot wage a guerrilla war per se for they are the occupants but they can certainly use the tactics of the guerrillas for the counter offensive. Whichever forces that did not learn to swim in the sandy milieu of the Iraqi society will certainly be vanquished. The American forces learn quickly they cannot win the war with military might, battles yes, …so eventually they have to resort to political battles like winning over the local Sunni chieftains to annihilate the Al-Qaeda forces who were responsible for most of the guerrilla tactics.



Voter 101:
Quote:
…..whether Rumsfeld plans the invasion of Iraq and is responsible is for the fiasco is debatable. I am of the opinion that it has to be The Commander-in-Chief who should be responsible for any failure in Iraq.


Response: The verdict has been out that Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were the “brains” behind the whole Iraqi adventure and fiasco, of course with the backing of the Neo-cons. Bush was just a rubber stamp for the adventure. Bush junior has no grey matter to carry out a battle plan. Remember he did not know when a mission was not accomplished. Remember also the insufficient number of occupying force, dismantling of the Iraqi security forces just after occupying Iraq and loss of control of the armaments that were later used against US forces. What more can be debated!

I agree Persian people are way smarter than the Arabs. If not for the constrictions imposed by Islam and the mullahs, Iran would be a world class power long ago. Islam has stifled the progress of the Persian culture and aspirations.


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