oneworldtalk

Veiled threat or good neighbor?


15:12, June 19, 2009

By Li Hongmei People's Daily Online

Some are afraid that a fresh border dispute between China and India would become the spark plunging the two neighbors again into a 'partial military action.' And India seems to have been conspiring to create the picture of an imminent war by deploying 60,000-strong additional troops and four SU-30 fighters along the 650-mile unfenced border with China.

The Sino-Indian border dispute dates back to almost half a century ago, when in 1962, China and India fought a serious border war, with Indian troops retreating with a complete defeat. And in 1986, the region, referred to as Southern Tibet since China laid claim to it, suddenly flared up again, as a result of India's continued and enhanced presence in the Chinese territory.

Decades have elapsed since the border war, but Indians still look on China through the tinted lens, which could merely produce untrue pictures and even distortions. As an Indian military official put it, 'Indians maintain the same national sentiments towards China as the way the Chinese do at the mention of Japan and Japanese,' many Indians actually have very subtle impression upon China, which has been translated into a very complicated mindset—awe, vexation, envy and jealousy—in the face of its giant neighbor.

The reason for this mentality is multi-faceted, and brought about by both historical factors and reality. In 1947, when India freed itself from the British colonization and won independence, it was one of the global industrial powers, ranking Top 10 in the world and far ahead of the then backward China. But today, China's GDP has tripled that of India and per capita income doubled, which turns out to be a totally unacceptable fact to many Indians. And with China's galloping economic growth since its adoption of the reform and opening up policy in late 1970s, the wealth gap between China and India has increasingly widened.

On top of that, some Western powers have been inciting India to challenge China, and even insidiously convince India that China would be the 'greatest obstacle' threatening India's rise. To feed its ambitions, the West has gone so far as to devise ways to extol India as a potentially No.1 democracy in Asia, but meanwhile intentionally play down China's social and economic progress.

India, on the other hand, draws the Western hint trying for dear life to surpass China. For years, it has also attempted, but in vain, to suppress China by taking advantage of its 'friendship' with the West. Obsessed with the crazy idea of 'enemy's friend being enemy,' India has gone out of its way to blemish the brotherly ties between China and Pakistan, which India regards as its arch-foe, even staking out a position that Pakistan would have no courage to challenge it without the back-up of China.

Indian people have heavily relied upon its media coverage to learn about China. Unfortunately, the Indian media have long been so accustomed to calibrating to curry favor with the Western anti-China forces that they invariably present their readers with biased information and fabricated stories about China. This will further deepen the gap between the two peoples, and fuel the national discontent against China among ordinary Indians. Additionally, India media seem always overzealous in spreading the so-called 'China Threat' theory, manipulating its audience and fanning up an intense feud over China.

Indian government, instead of working in a constructive direction to clear up its people's misunderstandings about China, which has gravely hampered the normal development of the bilateral relations, has consistently adopted a hostile foreign policy toward China, in an effort to win the support from its hawkish MPs and strength its rein in the nation. Under the pretext of 'China Threat', India finally launched a nuclear test in 1998. Only in recent years, Indian government shifted to a more pragmatic stance in dealing with China with the aim to enhance the bilateral cooperation.

Emerging from the dust of border dispute, Chinese President Hu Jintao and India PM Manmohan Singh appeared hand-in-hand Tuesday on the same arena of the first ever BRIC summit, hosted by Russia. This seems to deliver a message to the outside world that, plagued by the global financial crisis, both of the Asian giants need to reach out to each other seeking more cooperation rather than confrontation. 'Both sides should make a steady progress in pushing for dialogue and cooperation,' as President Hu was cited as saying.

But what is more irritating, Asia Development Bank (ADB) recently adopted the Country Partnership Strategy for India (2009-2012), involving disputed areas between China and India. The $2.9 billion plan approved this week by the ADB board includes the financing of projects in the so-called 'Arunachal Pradesh', an area which India regards as its 24th state, but actually much of it being part of China's Tibet Autonomous Region.

ADB's unbecoming program proves counterproductive, in that it has again dealt a blow to the already rickety China-India relationship. And moreover, the active steps lately taken by the leaders from both sides to thaw the feud would be more or less hobbled by it.

Decades have elapsed since the border war, but Indians still look on China through the tinted lens, which could merely produce untrue pictures and even distortions. As an Indian military official put it, 'Indians maintain the same national sentiments towards China as the way the Chinese do at the mention of Japan and Japanese,' many Indians actually have very subtle impression upon China, which has been translated into a very complicated mindset—awe, vexation, envy and jealousy—in the face of its giant neighbor.
....Li Hongmei People's Daily Online

Thanks Ipc 1998 for an interesting article. I have long given up my wishes that India would become an independent country with true Asian inspirations as its earlier leaders. Later leaders or leaders-to-be are nothing more than trying hard to imitate Americans and their lifestyles, just because they have the outsourcing IT industries cornered. They could do so because they have a good command of the English language/technical knowhow and a cheap labor force. Fortunes have come to only a few and the majority especially the untouchables are still living at about a $1 or less per day. A majority of the voting public is uneducated and will vote for politicians who will promise to bring basic amenities like water and electricity to their villages. So who are the gullible public who will read the biased reports regarding the Chinese "menace"....? Yes, those who still believe in the white "sahibs".

India’s China War by Neville Maxwell

With their independence on August 14, 1947, the status of the boundaries of India changed from the pawns for the British to play with their imperial rivals, to become the cell walls of a new national identity. The Indian government followed closely the footsteps of the British colonists. In 1949, India sent troops during an uprising in Sikkim and brought the state as a protectorate. In the same year, India signed a treaty to take over Britain’s rights to guide Bhutan in foreign affairs. In 1950, India increased its control over Nepal and consolidated the "chain of protectorates" in the Himalayan states. Towards Tibet, the new Indian Government followed the British mission in encouraging Tibetan separatism. In its strategic and geopolitical thinking inherited from the British, the Indian Government continued the exclusion of China’s authority from Tibet and attempted to increase the Indian influence. The Tibetans hoped that the transfer of British power to the Indians would give them an opportunity to regain the territory that British took from them a century before. In October 1947, they formally requested India to return their territory from Ladakh to Assam, and including Sikkim. The Indians in return simply asked Tibet to continue the relationship on the basis of the previous British Government.

The Indian plan to continue with British policy was met with major challenges. The absence of the British power and emergence of a strong central authority with the establishment of the Communist China reversed the power balance. With the announcement of Chinese military marching into Tibet, India reacted sharply and threatened that it would support the position of the Nationalist rump on Formosa rather than the People’s Republic of China in the United Nations. A few days later, Chinese army entered Tibet, and Indian government headed by the Prime Minister Nehru issued an angry protest, deploring the "invasion" of Tibet. China replied sharply: "Tibet is an integral part of China, and the problem of Tibet is entirely a domestic problem of China," and warned that it would not tolerate foreign interference. In response to India’s avowal that the use of military would injure China’s reputation in the world, China stated that any governments that interfere with China’s sovereign rights in Tibet as a pretext to obstruct China’s membership in the UN would further demonstrate their hostility. Indian government changed the China’s "sovereignty" to "suzerainty" over Tibet and hoped that China would leave domestic affairs to Tibetans like what Indians did in Bhutan. China viewed the Indian desire to have semi-independence in Tibet as a preliminary attempt to draw Tibet under Indian influence, an inference neither far-fetched nor unfair. When China later established diplomatic relations with Nepal, China became an open competitor in what India regarded as diplomatic reserve. In 1950, after its failed attempt to have some degrees of Tibetan independence and buffer, the Indian government adopted a pragmatic policy of pursuing friendship with China, a central element in India’s foreign policy formulated by Nehru. As China confirmed its authority in Tibet, India did not support the appeal of Tibet to the UN.

...... In fact, it took the world by surprise in May 1998 when India under an ultra-nationalist government, sought to justify its nuclear tests by citing China as its greatest threat. That was an incredible somersault in policy. I think the Congress criticized it. Nobody was asking India to explain the tests even though they were (rightly) outraged by it. To shoot off a letter to the American president, which U.S. officials leaked to their media, considerably undermined an average Indian’s pride in his country’s sovereignty.

China is close to becoming a global Godzilla of the kind the Nazis had become in the 1930s. It is ultra-nationalist, racist, autocratic, monocultural and militaristic -- all vital ingredients of Nazism.

......

China has always been the biggest roadblock to India's rise in the world, but what we know privately we have always sought to deny publicly. It all started with Nehru's disastrous handling of foreign policy in the 1950s, which culminated in our humiliating defeat in the 1962 border war.

.....

At the Nuclear Suppliers' Group last year, China tried its best to scuttle the Indo-US deal. At the UN, China was the only country (apart from Pakistan) to steadfastly spike our dreams of permanent membership.

The Middle Kingdom is clearly the rogue state behind the clandestine transfer of nuclear and missile technology between Pakistan and North Korea. A nuclear and terror-supporting Pakistan is critical to Chinese plans to keep India bogged down in local insurgencies. A rogue North Korean state enables China to keep both South Korea and Japan off-balance.

At the Asian Development Bank, China's was the hand that nearly stopped a loan for Arunachal Pradesh. In fact, the clearance of this loan -- facilitated by India's strong diplomatic pressure on the US, South Korea and Japan -- shows that power needs to be projected when it comes to dealing with China. There is only one way to deal with China and that is by building our military, diplomatic and economic strength continuously.

Japan, South Korea and Vietnam could be our silent allies in this game, but even if the world does not want to play, we must be clear in our goals. We have to develop deterrent military and economic power to contain China and earn its respect. We have to dump the Nehruvian mindset of fooling ourselves into believing that China is a benign power. It is not. It is a rogue state under wraps.

What a stupid comparison by this Indian military official. Chinese had never gone into India to subjugate, imprison, rape or execute Indian citizens. The Japanese did horrific things when they invaded China and still has not repented for its actions on an official level. Token excuses have been delivered by some officials but short of official wholesale apology, unlike what the Germans did for the Jews.

These two countries with long history of cultural contacts should return to the table and discuss what have sustained each nation before western influences. Perhaps they will realise that, together, they can help to bring this world to a level of civility.....to the days when Asokan and the Tang empires rule Asia and in complete harmony.

An alien Earthling
Jun 19, 2009
Reply

Well written!!! The Chinese threat is completely underplayed by the “mainstream media” scoundrels. It’s not a surprise since many of them are in the direct pay of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) crooks, like the sewer journalist N.Ram of The (C)hindu.

The fact remains that there is absolutely NO space for BOTH China and India to play a “dominant role” in a so-called “Asian century”. There is space only for ONE of these heavily overpopulated, glaringly backward (in terms of quality of life, HDI, wealth distribution etc.), culturally and socially primitive (female foeticide/infanticide) Third-World countries.

A second confrontration is INEVITABLE. The second one will be much, much bigger than the first one (a mere border war). It’s NOT a question of if, but WHEN!

S. Menon says: June 19, 2009 at 07:38 AM IST

I think India needs a pragmatic and aggressive approach to contain the growing Chinese influence that threatens India's stability. We can easily achieve this by using an effective blend of Intelligence and diplomacy.. Our RAW can create havoc if it can penetrate to Xingjian and Tibet. Majority of the Chinese are not happy as the economic disparity between the upper class and lower class is growing. The intelligence should collaborate with CIA on this front and such unrest will ultimately disintegrate the stability of China. (Remember even US is under threat by China!!) Once it starts to disintegrate, the story will be similar to the former USSR. The new countries surrounds India will no longer a threat (like Tibet). Remember we can not defeat China on Military front but we can easily attain our goal by destabilising China. I think major powers will silently supports this and can achieve our goal within a decade!

Remember we can not defeat China on Military front but we can easily attain our goal by destabilising China. I think major powers will silently supports this and can achieve our goal within a decade!

India on Friday successfully launched a ballistic missile in the second such trial of the nuclear-capable weapon in a month, the defence ministry said.

The Agni-II missile blasted off from a testing site in Orissa and "achieved all its flight parameters without hitch," a senior ministry official said.

"It was a user trial conducted by the army and defence scientists," he said of the rocket, which the military says is capable of hitting targets deep inside adjoining China.

The test was the second since May 19 when a similar 2,500-kilometre 1,560-mile range Agni-II was fired from the same site, hitting a pre-designated target in the Bay of Bengal.

The Indian-developed 20-metre-long missile weighs 16 tonnes and is capable of carrying one tonne of conventional or nuclear warheads.

Fridays trial, part of the nations efforts to build a credible minimum nuclear deterrent, paves the way for the missiles mass production and eventual induction by the Indian army, the official said.

India already has the 3,000-kilometre range Agni-III missile -- the longest in the Agni series -- which can also carry conventional or nuclear payloads.

Unconfirmed reports suggest India is also building an Agni variant with a range of 5,000 kilometres.

The Agni Fire is one of a series being developed by Indias Defence Research Development Organisation as part of the countrys deterrent strategy against China and neighbouring Pakistan, which also have nuclear weapons.

Agni-I, first tested in 1993, has a strike range of 1,500 kilometres.

Many educated and informed Indians including those are residents and citizens of western countries join the anti-China crusade and spread and incite anti-China propaganda and even outright lies while most Chinese people leave India and Indians alone

The intelligence should collaborate with CIA on this front and such unrest will ultimately disintegrate the stability of China. Once it starts to disintegrate, the story will be similar to the former USSR. The new countries surrounds India will no longer a threat (like Tibet). Remember we can not defeat China on Military front but we can easily attain our goal by destabilising China.
by S. Menon says: June 19, 2009 at 07:38 AM IST

India a non-aligned nation? They can't be serious! India has long abandoned the principles of NAM. Many Indians have complained that China is communist and opaque, ie, not transparent like Indian democracy. Well, they only have to look closer at themselves - loud mouth and no sense of shame. The American and western patrons will be extremely embarrassed by Menon's revelation of covert interference.

The Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) is an international organization of states considering themselves not formally aligned with or against any major power bloc. The movement is largely the brainchild of Gamal Abdul Nasser, former president of Egypt, Indian Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru and Yugoslav president Josip Broz Tito. It was founded in April 1955; as of 2007, it has 118 members.

India’s China War by Neville Maxwell

As the Western world was solidly with India, the non-alignment countries whose leadership India aspired were reserved and wary. An Indian correspondent in the Middle East reported: "Not a single expression of sympathy for India has come from any Arab Government, any political party or newspaper, or public personality even a week after the invasion." Another in Africa reported that Kenyatta and other leaders were non-committal while Nkrumah of Ghana went farther by rebuking Britain for its offers of military assistance to India. He wrote to the British Prime Minister, Macmillan: "Whatever the rights and wrongs of the present struggle between India and China, I am sure that we can all serve the cause of peace best by refraining from any action that may aggravate the situation." Since Nehru just visited Ghana, Nkrumah’s attitude was more offensive to India. Ethiopia and Cyprus were the only countries among those that attended the 1961 Belgrade Conference of Non-aligned governments to openly support India. Others showed more interests in urging restraint and patience on both sides while volunteering to act as mediators, the role often played by India so far. When Parliament reassembled, Nehru expressed his resentment at India’s friends, the "well-intentioned countries" who tried to bring about a ceasefire. "People advise us to be good and peaceful as if we are inclined to war. In fact, if we are anything, as the House well knows, we do not possess the war-like mentality and that is why for the purpose of war there is weakness … So, people talking to us to be good boys and make it up has no particular meaning, unless they come to grips with the issues involved." Nehru said that the "so-called non-aligned countries" (unexpected phrasing from Nehru) were confused and a little frightened of China, so "it is no good our getting angry with them (because) they do not stand forthright in our defense, in support of our position."

....... It (India) is also extremely poor. About 27m Indians will be born this year (2009). Unless things improve, almost 2m of them will die before the next general election. Of the children who survive, more than 40% will be physically stunted by malnutrition. Most will enroll in a school, but they cannot count on their teachers showing up. After five years of classes, less than 60% will be able to read a short story and more than 60% will still be stumped by simple arithmetic.

The coming war between India and China

Posted on March 1, 2009 by Moin Ansari

India has been buying weapons and trying to build them for decades. It has been buying junk from Moscow (Flying Coffins) and has been unable to produce weapons on its own. The list of Indian failures is long. Kevari Engine, Tejas LCA, Trishul, Nag, Agni Arjun and Brahmos are a few examples of the total failure of the Delhi arms. Indian missile failures

Despite spending humongous amounts of money the bureaucrats of the Ganges have been unable to make Bharat self-sufficient in arms production. It is the only country of any sizable size which cannot produce arms that it can export. This colossal failure of the Bharati arms industry has filtered down to the total lack of any credible manufacturing from Goa to Gurdaspur.

...........

Of course the Tatas and the Birlas have pulled rabbits out of their hats with huge smoke and mirrors that make the average Bharati think that the paradise of the shantytowns in Mumbai that encompass half of the population of the city are part of Shining India. Bharatis are incapable of looking at the extreme penury around them and blind to the filth right outside the Delhi airport. They cannot smell the stench of human excrement right outside the Mumbai airport and oblivious to the fact that 80% of the population takes a dump every morning on the railway lines. A nation that does not have working toilets for 80% of its population is proud of the fact that it can turn on a switch on a Russian launcher and a Soviet era engine designed and made in Moscow. It is disgusting that the country which has the lowest PER CAPITA GNP in South Asia and has most of the world poor declare itself a Space power.

A society full of untouchable, Sati, widow incarceration, and caste in incapable of any shine. The Slumdog power has 89 insurgencies with 40% of its territory under rebel control–this is “Incredible India”. Nothing incredible about the IT power whose revenues from the Call Centers are half that of IBM. There is no shine in the country where 450 Dalits and Untouchables eek out a living as slaves and 150 million Muslims simply survive.

The Slumdog power mesmerized by Bollywood (filmed outside Bharat) cannot come to terms with the simple fact that 80% of its population lives below $2 per day with the hunger index placing it below Burkino Faso.

..........

One out of every 200 Indians is already employed by the Indian Armed Forces. Three out of every four Indians already live at or less than $2 a day. Bharat Sarkar (the Government of India) has, however, now jacked up the defence budget by a massive 55 percent. Who is India going to fight with?

India has 3,773,300 troops, plus 1,089,700 paramilitary forces (www.nationmaster.com). India’s army is second only to China in size. The Indian Air Force, with a total aircraft strength of 1,700, is the world’s 4th largest. The Indian Navy already operates some 13 dozen vessels with INS Viraat as its flagship, the only “full-deck aircraft carrier operated by a country in Asia or the Western Pacific, along with operational jet fighters.” Who is India going to fight with?

India has six neighbours; Pakistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Burma, Nepal and China. India now spends a colossal $32.35 billion on defence, Pakistan $4.8 billion, Bangladesh $830 million, Nepal $100 million and Burma $30 million (according to Business Standard, India’s second-largest financial daily, “There is no apparent reason for India to understate its defence budget. No IMF conditions constrain defence spending…. But India continues to camouflage what other comparable liberal democracies transparently show as defence spending). Collectively, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma and Nepal spend $5.7 billion a year on defence. Who is India going to fight with?

Yes, there’s China and the People’s Republic spends $80 billion a year on defence. According to a report by Stratfor, the Texas-based private intelligence agency, “China has been seen as a threat to India, and simplistic models show them to be potential rivals. In fact, however, China and India might as well be on different planets. Their entire frontier runs through the highest elevations of the Himalayas. It would be impossible for a substantial army to fight its way through the few passes that exist, and it would be utterly impossible for either country to sustain an army there in the long term. The two countries are irrevocably walled off from each otherl…. Ideally, New Delhi wants to see a Pakistan that is fragmented, or at least able to be controlled. Towards this end, it will work with any power that has a common interest and has no interest in invading India.”

To be certain, India and China are not military rivals. Who is India then going to fight with? Bharatiya Sthalsena (the Indian Army) has a total of 13 corps, of which six are strike corps. Of the 13 corps at least seven have their guns pointed towards Pakistan. The 3rd Armoured Division, 2nd Armoured Brigade, 4 RAPID (Reorganised Army Plains Infantry Divisions), Jaisalmer AFS, Utarlai AFS and Bhuj AFS are all aiming at splitting Pakistan into two (by capturing the Kashmore/Guddu Barrage-Reti-Rahimyar Khan triangle). The News. Bharatiya Sthalsena Sunday, March 01, 2009 Dr Farrukh Saleem. The writer is the executive director of the Centre for Research and Security Studies (CRSS). Email: farrukh15@hotmail.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

The budget estimates (BE) for ‘national defence’ for the year 2009 – 10 stands at Rs. 1,41,703 crore, a jump of Rs 27,103 crore (about 35 percent increase in current prices) from the previous year’s revised estimates of Rs. 1,14,600 crore (the latter itself has increased from estimated figure of Rs. 1,05,600 crore earmarked for the year 2008-09).

Some 300 parties and numerous independent candidates contested the election that has just ended (see article). They chose a bewildering variety of symbols: a lotus flower, a bow-and-arrow, a ceiling fan, a cricketer pulling the ball to the boundary. Of the 417m people who voted (a turnout of 58%), about 119m pushed the button next to an open hand, the symbol of the Congress party. That was enough to give it 206 of the 545 parliamentary seats. In a country more than twice the size of the European Union, speaking more languages, that is about as clear a mandate as any party can hope to win and—if Congress uses that mandate wisely—a wonderful chance to boost the welfare of the next generation of Indians.

lpc1998 wrote :



The Indians have a greater tendency to help their nationals and take collective action. It is more than a coincidence as we note many Indian professionals recommend their relatives or friends to join the same company and rise up the corporate ladder together.

Most Chinese would go out of the way or bend rules to help their own race. In some ways, the Chinese may not be as sagacious as the Indians try to speak in local accented English in public to impress as well as not to "offend" intolerant bigots. With the exception of the Beijing Olympics where the Chinese netizens world wide expressed anger at disruptions of the torch relay. The world was taken aback because they have never expected the passive, submissive and long suffering Chinese would is so incensed and outspoken.

Maybe there's something that the Chinese could learn more from the Indians in self defence.

The Blind Men and the Elephant
by John Godfrey Saxe

American poet John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887) based the following poem on a fable which was told in India many years ago.

It was six men of Hindustan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Hindustan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

There is a popular saying: "if you live in a glass house, do not throw stones!"

India is a nation of many ethnic groups, class structures, religious and political beliefs. Thus it is easier in my mind to destabilise India and bring about its disintegration. So far, we have seen the formation of Pakistan, Bangladesh and India in that subcontinent. China has always upheld a belief of non internal interference and thus has not agitated for the disintegration of India. China's close association with Pakistan is based upon a belief that Pakistan will help her to control the Muslim separatists of Xinkiang. Hindu India has all along aligned itself with powers which hold some forms of grudges towards China viz a viz USSR and currently USA. Class warfare and religious strives will be the downfall for India if this country continues its own merry way of afternoon tea, bollywood make-belief, cricket matches and polo games.

“With their independence on August 14, 1947, the status of the boundaries of India changed from the pawns for the British to play with their imperial rivals, to become the cell walls of a new national identity. The Indian government followed closely the footsteps of the British colonists. ......... Towards Tibet, the new Indian Government followed the British mission in encouraging Tibetan separatism. In its strategic and geopolitical thinking inherited from the British, the Indian Government continued the exclusion of China’s authority from Tibet and attempted to increase the Indian influence. The Tibetans hoped that the transfer of British power to the Indians would give them an opportunity to regain the territory that British took from them a century before. In October 1947, they formally requested India to return their territory from Ladakh to Assam, and including Sikkim. The Indians in return simply asked Tibet to continue the relationship on the basis of the previous British Government.”

Into Tibet is the incredible story of a 1949-1950 American undercover expedition led by America's first atomic agent, Douglas S. Mackiernan–a covert attempt to arm the Tibetans and to recognize Tibet's independence months before China invaded.

It was a one-year trek across Inner Asia to Tibet, for the agents: across black sand deserts below sea level, and over snow bound 20,000 feet Himalayan passes. Tragically, ill-informed border guards opened fire on the American party as soon as they reached Tibet, killing Mackiernan before he could reach Lhasa. Or did Mackiernan suspect that his mission was actually a political kiss of death for the Tibetans, and commit an odd suicide? The dramatic shoot out at the border turns and re-shapes as layer within layer of this true-life mystery is revealed.

The survivor, Frank Bessac, says that he took up Mackiernan's mission. He met the young Dalai Lama in Lhasa, the last American ever to do so there. The Dalai Lama in his first ever interview about this US operation said, " Yes, it happened. .. You see we considered him as something official. Because he had a radio and money…he was somehow, we thought, an American government official–he had a radio. So you see he offered…the Tibetan side was very much willing at that time to discuss things."


Standing up in the Potala the twenty eight-year-old American agent made an impassioned plea to the Tibetan National Assembly, urging it to officially request covert US military aid. This is what he thought Mackiernan would have done. Chinese spies in Lhasa followed his every move. Six weeks after he left Tibet, with the governments' official written request for covert military aid in hand, that document was encrypted and transmitted back to Washington where it landed on the desk of Dean Rusk, at the State Department. Weeks later the CIA began to air drop small amounts of military aid into Tibet. Weeks after that China invaded, claiming it did so to halt 'Imperialist Plots'. America publicly denied any covert US involvement as 'Communist Propaganda'. Tibet had to lie about these events, to protect America. LIFE Magazine published a sanitized version of the trek across Tibet as, This Was the Tragic Trek to Tragedy.

The fact that small insignificant nations like Bhutan and Sikkim were "annexed" and became part of the Indian nation had not raised much fanfare in western capitals indicates the hypocrisy underlining the belief that India being a "democracy" would do no harm. I guess these tiny Buddhist kingdoms in the Himalayas have no choice, being land locked and lacking any natural resources. Forming a union with India would ensure their continuing "freedom to the outside world and continuing freedom to practise their live styles". However, their standard of living remains pretty stagnant as India has no incentives to put money into these "states" unless of course, they are of strategic values. And they are, especially now when India believes it has to exert its "growing economic and military power". So these kingdoms will never be in "shangrila state" anymore when two "elephants" decide to do a "bull run".

Orange Blossom wrote : Most Chinese would not go out of the way or bend rules to help their own race. In some ways, the Chinese may not be as sagacious as the Indians who make a conscious effort to speak in local accented English in public to impress as well as not to "offend" intolerant bigots. With the exception of the Beijing Olympics where the Chinese netizens world wide expressed anger at disruptions of the torch relay. The world was taken aback because they have never expected the passive, submissive and long suffering Chinese would is so incensed and outspoken.

Maybe there's something that the Chinese could learn more from the Indians in self defence.

Most Indians who behave that way are basically insecure and racist. The Chinese should neither learn from them nor support them. After all, China is a civilisation state, not a nation state like the western countries and therefore the Chinese are generally race and ethnic indifferent. What the Chinese lack is a good community life like that of the Protestant Christians, but free of superstition or dogma of any kind.

In this connection, the Jews and Japanese being religiously and racially prejudiced are far better examples of group unity and support than the Indians, but being so, they are disliked by other people for their antagonism and selfishness.

My suggestion to take a leaf from the book of the Indians does not mean indiscriminate copying but urging the Chinese to be build up community spirit.

Chinese is a culture rather than a race. It encompasses the assimilation of multicultural values over long periods in history and underpinned by classical core philosophies of Confucianism, Taoism and agnostic practices. However, it is more likely that most overseas Chinese congregate in the church to capitalise on its organisational set up, or inconspicuous interest groups and community schools to groom the young.

You could also tell that I am dismayed at intrigues of Indians promote their families and friends. Contrary to being insecure, they are astute at politicking.

Candymancan
May 8, 2009 18:12

I don’t see it right that each time articles concerning China show up at Economist, there is almost always the nay saying “Indian factor” however ill disguised pops over the commentary no matter what.(It’s rather rare to see the like “Chinese factor” in articles concerning India however). I thought Chinese and Indians are supposed to be friends as both had suffered outside oppression and internal strife only half a century or so ago.

Some deliberately make use of their sharper acid tongue or perhaps slightly defter English language skills to batter Chinese posters in manners unfit for serious posting of comments. Even one of them did express remorse about such excess and wrote a post on another article on May 7, 2009 6:21 and in his own words //Indians on this forum should just shut-up//.

For some of us, there may not be much antagonism at the personal level. With some of my Indian friends, we could discuss openly on politics without ruffling feathers. With others, we would try to steer clear of such sensitive topics. If more Indians were to be exposed to other cultures and read widely outside their professional and nationalist realm, don't you think relations would improve? They would not vote for ultra nationalist leaders who are bent on military buildup and form strategic alliances to trample across the neighbours' fences. Many Indians now have business dealings with Chinese associates living in different parts of the world and mainland China.

Indian families undergoing the pain for the loss of a child or their friends should be awakened to the weaknesses in law enforcement and protection of the minorities against criminals and racists. Foreign students will have more to gain by helping each other and unify themselves rather than to keep aloof amongst their clans. Coexistence and mutual prosperity of India and China should be the common aspirations of countries who want to restore their historical glory. The world is big enough to accommodate many powerful states and avoid a scenario of a sole victor and vanquished.

http://oneworldtalk.freeforums.org/post7303.html#p7303

Media coverage of Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi's visit strengthened the misgivings expressed in this column ("Freedom with responsibility", August 29). The subtlety of Mr Pranab Mukherjee's reproof in expressing "deep appreciation" of the "untiring efforts" of four of the nuclear Big Five in helping India obtain the Nuclear Suppliers Group waiver, while pointedly excluding China, the fifth member, was not evident in the bald accusations made by anchormen, panellists and columnists.

What made matters worse was that the accusers were obviously acting on tips by External Affairs Ministry officials. They should know, even if excitable TV jockeys do not, that no business can be done with a Chinese if you cause him to lose face. Our newspapers, news agencies and TV channels may be fiercely independent but if they had gleaned on their own that China incited Austria, Ireland and New Zealand to scuttle the Vienna negotiations, they would have gone to town with it at the time. There was not a whisper then because no one knew. The storm burst only on the eve of Mr Yang's visit. Clearly, the ham-handed leak being timed to cause the maximum discomfort to a supposedly honoured guest.

His pained protest -- "We didn't do anything to block it. We played a constructive role" -- sounded embarrassed and irritated. In Chinese eyes, media barracking was no different from providing asylum to the Dalai Lama or acquiescing in the hostile Tibetan demonstrations that greeted Mr Yang.

Indian conceit about their supposed convivial pluralism and venerable cultural heritage misleads them into believing they are ineffably agreeable to others. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. Muslims, a vast segment of the world?s population, dismiss pagan Indians with withering contempt. Arabs view them as lowly menials, which is precisely the status of the vast majority abroad. Britain?s elites harbour abiding animus towards Indian Hindus because they continue to blame them for their loss of imperial power and associated claims to elevated world status. In Europe, only France?s elites, infamously surprising the Nazis by their eagerness to collaborate in dispatching their Jewish compatriots to concentration camp deaths, match them in anti-Hindu vitriol. Xenophobic Christian America is proudly ignorant and sees little real difference between their own former slaves and repugnant non white Indian slumdogs. The Chinese harbour more racial malice even compared to the Japanese or Indians themselves and they remain malevolently poised to put India in its place once and for all. The priapic Pakistani jehadis incubate inborn hatred towards Indians despite mostly being Hindu converts to Islam themselves, held in low esteem by Arabs. India?s two principal international friends are allied to it for essentially opportunistic reasons because that is the normal modus operandi of international relations.

Indians need a harsh reality check to recognise these hard truths about themselves and how unforgiving the real world happens to be. They need to nurture a degree of cynicism and permanently erase their irrepressible desire to be loved by everyone. Much better to be feared, since they are in fact already heartily detested, and endeavour to protect their fundamental national interests. It need not be accompanied by feeling gratuitous satisfaction in harming others, but it would be legitimate to undertake fitting measures for self-preservation against repeated egregious foreign assault. ......

India should renounce its existing ?no first-use? nuclear weapons strategy the moment its own missiles prove technically robust and numerous enough to assure its second-strike capability. It should begin urban evacuation drills, build hardened shelters for its key decision-makers and reduce conventional forces on the Indo-Chinese border. The latter will convey a potent message of willingness to resort to nuclear weapons at an early stage of a major conflict. A discussion in the Indian media should hint at the prospect of Indian nuclear strikes against Chinese and Saudi cities if Pakistan were to use Chinese-supplied nuclear weaponry, effectively outsourced to it, against India. Let both the Saudis and Chinese consider what level of risk they are willing to countenance by abetting Pakistani terror against India. They will have to balance the dire cost to them of an emphatic Indian response, however apparently irrational, if it suffered catastrophic harm, against the ephemeral gains of using Pakistan to cause India grief. India?s failed Nepal policy should be abandoned and an implacable assertion of Indian interests advanced to curb growing Chinese influence in Nepal. Several additional Tibetan divisions might be sponsored to signal the inviolability of Indian sovereignty in Arunachal Pradesh. All these measures are largely defensive, but signal and threaten without actually initiating a direct military clash.

Of all the threats which India faces, the biggest is China. Other threats like Pakistani Army attitude and terrorists are proxy threats. China represents a threat in itself. India and China are two civilizations and a conflict between these two will be a civilizational conflict. Pakistani Army and terrorism can be controlled by US influence. Will US be able to influence China to stop attacking India like it can influence Pakistan? China will attack India when others are busy and is advantageous for China. Will India ever attack china even when it feels advantageous?

I wish to point out to our contributors of this thread -- lpc1998, smalltok, kebau and Wynston -- that the SMH journalist covering China, John Garnaut, is an Indian even though his name (first name and family name) have been Anglicised. We give everyone the benefit of doubt but this particular journalist has repeatedly smeared and bashed China while the news editor condoned it and newspaper readers continued to be kept in the dark and have their views distorted by irreponsible reporting.

www.traineeships.fairfax.com.au/photo3.jpg

Note this face. He's a disgrace to his Aussie mates, ethnic Chinese and Indians.

The World must realize that China has unilaterally created dams all over the places in this nation and relentlessly kill off greatest rivers such as the Mekong River one of the greatest rivers of the world!
Countless losses of natural resources and wild creatures relying on the healthy Mef kong River have been destroyed and going extinction!
In addition, nations have shared this river such as: Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam have victimized too much for this murderous deed of destroying this Mekong River!
In essence, China is the worst nation in Asia in particular and the world in general to devastate the natural environment just like a great devil of the Asian continent and the world as well!

Chinese fishermen have aplied the uses of Potassium Cyanide (KCN) and explosives to fish in Pacific Ocean and other seas that this barbarians have forced countless marinal creatures to go extinction in greatest scales and all Asian nations look stupidly and worthlessly to stop this nightmare to continue in South East Asian Sea and Pacific ocean and elsewhere else!
In this sense,
CHINA IS THE WORLD MOST HARMFUL NATION OR CRIMINAL STATE IN HARMING THE WORLD ENVIRONMENTS INCLUDING THE WORLD ATMOSPHERE WITH ITS CO2 EMIISION AND POTASSIUM CYANIDE AND POISONS OF ALL KINDS!
THIS CHINA MUST BE KICKED OUT OF THE UN AND UNSC AT THIS TIME AND FUTURE! AND THE WORLD MUST SANCTION AND BOYCOTT CHINA AND ITS MADE IN CHINA PRODUCTS OF ALL KINDS TO SAVE THE WORLD AND THE FUTURE OF MANKIND!
Hopefully this warning will reach all world nations and their leaders and decision-makers to develop ways of dealing with the growing dangers of China and China or will face suffering much much more than present!
It is a very late warning and alarm to all world citizens in all corners of the world!

(This comment has been deleted)

**

CHINA HAS INUDATED THE WORLD WITH ALL SORTS OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES AND HARMFUL DEEDS!
This China has destroyed world atmosphere with its massive CO2 emission and initating a Global weather shifting affected by the Greenhouse Effect!
In the Oceans, China has systematically created extinctions to countless marinal creatures!
On earth, China has killed Mekong River and occupying lands of Tibet nation, Uighur nation, Sprattly and Paracel islands of Vietnam nation, etc.,
in this sense, China is the devil of the world and the ENTIRE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT CHINA AT ALL MEANS FROM STOPPING IMPORTING MADE INCHINA PRODUCTS TO STOPPING INVESTING IN CHINA AND MOVING ALL FACTORIES OUT OF CHINA AND LETTING CHINA TO LIVE WITH ITSELF! IN ORDER TO SHOW CHINA HOW TOLIVE AS A CIVILIZED AND RESPONSIBLE NATION LIKE ALL OTHERS!

SO,

BOYCOTT ALL MADE IN CHINA PRODUCTS! STOP INVESTING ALL BUSINESSES AND FACTORIES IN CHINA!
BOYCOTTINGOF SELLING ALL RAW MATERIALS TO CHINA SUCH AS OIL, MINERALS, AND ALL TECHNOLOGIES MUST BE BANNED TO CHINA TO USE!
LET CHINA USES ITS OWN BAMBOO AND DIRT TREES TO MAKE PRODUCTS FOR ITS OWN CITIZENS!

What has happened to the peaceful philosophy espoused by Gandhi? Indian nationalist leaders are still living in the post-war strategic mentality of destroying the rivals many times over to gain the upperhand. Chinese unity is the the ironical and unintentional results that Indian ultranationalism. I'm sure most people would prefer not to be racist and nationalist for that may make them look chauvinistic. The moderate Indians should be weaned over to the side of reason. Hopefully, leaders who are more circumpsect and tolerant are voted to Indian high office to replace nationalist hawks.

The world can do without troublemakers who stir up hatred of another race or culture that is in the lead. I suspect that journalists like John Garnaut and Thoriel Howard may be just a tip of the ice-berg among some journalists of diverse and mixed nationalities. They may not be representative of most Indians or western journalists but the contagious fad of identifying and attacking vulnerable and innocent targets should be checked. While most think it's harmless especially among advocates of freedom of speech, the journalists' foray into occasional mischief won't be entertaining if sparks can cause accidental fire and explosion. The human race can be decimated in seconds in a nuclear war promoted by ultranationalists, radicals and terrorists.

Most readers who do not have indepth knowledge of India and Chinawould not notice these subtle provocations. Research has shown that political TV ads could influence voters' thinking, so could writing style. The malicious designs and perverted thrust of their arguments are well known to those who follow the news closely. It is important that we point out their deception, set the record straight, state the facts to counter their assertions. We want to promote peace and harmony that certain people are bent on destroying.

.... India is more democratic but somehow it is not doing as well. Perhaps, for a large, backward country, it needs a stronger central direction. And perhaps, it is hard to maintain stable policies over the long term when Governments and parties running it keep changing.

I think it is possible for both China and India to prosper and I think India could do vey well, given the distrust of the West over a very strong China, and its centrally controlled Government which is not the form they are used to and given the past hostilities the West had with Communist countries.

Given the deastabilising threat of terrorists in Pakistan, it is important for the West that the economy of India must not be allowed to deteriorate. Another reason that the West would one to see India do well.

At or about the same time, the Muslim-Hindu feuds which have ancient roots going back to the days of the Muslim Mughur Empire would escalate in South Asia as Islamic fighters freed from the conflicts in the Middle-east and Afghanistan would either overrun Pakistan or come to a settlement with her and congregate to support their brethren fighting the Indian military occupation of Muslim Kashmir and elsewhere on the sub-continent. With over one billion Muslims versus over billion Indians, the fighting will be on a massive scale and prolonged. Very soon, the Islamic fighters would forget about the US and the west who would be in the position to sell arms to both sides, a role they have core competence.

Samuel Phillips Huntington (April 18, 1927–December 24, 2008) was an American political scientist who gained prominence through his Clash of Civilizations (1993, 1996) thesis of a post-Cold War new world order.

The propsect you painted of a billion+ Muslims fighting a billion+ Indians is huge and scary. Samuel P Hungtington would be pleased to know in his grave that there is a sequel to his Clash of Civilizations. Given how mad people can be, and there are probably lots of them in India, and the Muslim world, it sends me the shivers. .....

...... But even a Buddhist country like Thailand or Myanmar can be disappointing. I wonder what works in this world. The Jews are religious and look at how they fight the Arab world. The world is stressed, the Earth is stressed and the billions of people that are stressed is like a volcano waiting to erupt. Yes, I think you have identified a fault line in the Indian peninsula. And it would be really earth-shaking when it happens. Lets hope the good karma that Gautama Buddha left behind would help the people there avoid war and instability. Hope people would choose wisely.

So unless society could be governed with the minimum need to rely on superstitions and ignorance, and fear and greed, mankind lives perilously on the edge of calamity.

I pretty much agree with what you said about the Jews, although their effort to create Israel is superhuman. Imagine what could happen if such superhuman effort has been directed towards climate change or to reverse the damage to the Earth's eco-system. ....

..... Religion is powerful stuff. Religion can misguide but there are also truths in religion. .....

.... Today's society is also at risk of becoming valueless. By overthrowing tradition, diminishing religion's role, and revolutionizing pretty much everything, people now are very much influenced by the commercial factors so much as that society is becoming quite soulless. ....

..... China has swung from Communist to the soullessness of a Socialist face and Capitalist heart, from overthrowing religion to many worshipping money.