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 Post subject: Wisdom vs. Intelligence
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Posts: 46
The folowing article is interesting in a way to differentiate intelligence from wisdom. Wisdom appears to be the desirable outcome of the use of one's intelligence. It shows up from people of all walks of life in both philosophical and practical forms. while many intelligent people ( more often than not, the self righteous and important) not only do not have the wisdom but use thier intelligence for profiting from other people, creating conflicts and other undesirable deeds. They are generally living a miserable existence ( for fear of others who act like them to do harm to them). I submit, on the surface, they may be rich and famous, but deep down is not the case.



Wisdom leads to happy life, prof finds
Wise people do what has to be done without ceding to outside force
MICHAEL McLEOD
When asked to define wisdom, Socrates just shrugged. He said he couldn’t find it, whatever it was, either in himself or in his fellow citizens.


The news from Monika Ardelt is more encouraging. Yes, she reports, wisdom is rare. No, it is not extinct. If you know where to look, you can catch glimpses of it, darting in and out of its usual habitat.


Most scholars seek wisdom in folklore, ancient texts and the spiritual visionaries of the ages: Siddhartha, Confucius, Lao Tsu, Buddha, Abraham, Muhammad, Jesus Christ.


Ardelt, a 47-year-old University of Florida sociologist, bypassed the usual suspects, searching instead among ordinary souls.


She found wisdom in a 77-year-old retired school administrator who learned, over his lifetime, to see problems as games, meant to be played out rather than feared.


“I’ve never allowed any outside force to take possession of my being,” he said.


She found wisdom in an 85-year-old homemaker who lived by the creed: “Do whatever has to be done, whether you want to do it or not.”


The strategy served her well. She had used it most recently to get through painful rehab from two knee operations, succeeding where others often failed, eventually ditching her walker and her cane in favour of her own two feet.


Ardelt found wisdom in a 59-year-old woman with only 10 years of education who, in the middle of a hurricane, pretended to fall asleep in order to calm her children.


“Somebody has to be cool,” the woman explained. “It works during funerals, too.”


‘Wisdom quiz’


Since the mid-1990s, using church and social groups and retirement and health facilities as her hunting grounds, Ardelt has discovered wisdom among scores of senior citizens, using questionnaires, one-on-one interviews and even a 39question “wisdom quiz” to ferret it out among the elders.


In a 1998 study, she interviewed 82 women and 39 men between the ages of 58 and 82, asking them, in essence, how happy they were, and why. She was hoping to see how wisdom would stack up against health and money as a contributing factor to contentment. Wisdom beat both challengers decisively.


More recently, Ardelt decided to find out what strategies wise and relatively unwise individuals use when confronted with the hardships and obstacles of life.


She started by asking 180 senior volunteers to anonymously take a test she called a “personality and aging well study.” The questionnaire was designed to gauge how each individual scored on a “wisdom” scale, based on qualities most often associated with that virtue: selflessness, compassion, objectivity, flexibility and a deep, unblinking understanding of life and human nature.


Then subjects were interviewed individually about how they handled difficult situations in their lives and were secretly given yet another score based on their answers.


Ardelt selected the three who scored the highest and the three who scored the lowest and compared each trio to the other.


What she quickly realized was that wise elders tended to use three main strategies in dealing with difficulties.


They distanced themselves from a crisis so it would not overpower them, taking a step backward to calm themselves — to become, as the one respondent phrased it, the “cool” one.


They did what they could to actively cope with a challenge — working hard at rehab after a knee operation, for example, rather than giving in to self-pity and pain.


And when a crisis arose in their lives, they applied their personal codes, or “life lessons,” such as never giving in to an outside force, or always doing what needs to be done.


Ardelt said she learned just as much about wisdom by examining the responses of those who were least in touch with it. The three who scored lowest in the “wisdom profile” were “extremely vulnerable and defenseless when experiencing extreme hardships in life,” she said.


They suffered through ordeals without trying to analyze or cope with them. They tended to believe there was nothing they could do about obstacles, such as financial problems, health problems and the behaviour of errant spouses.


Most dramatically, while wise individuals rarely complained and talked often and with obvious delight about the welfare of those they loved during interviews, their low-scoring counterparts much preferred to discuss themselves and their own never-ending catalogue of complaints.


Self-centredness harmful


Self-absorption, and the unhappiness that comes with it, has become a recurring theme in Ardelt’s observations. “It’s striking to me just how harmful self-centredness is to the individual,” she said.


By the time she decided to begin studying wisdom among elders, Ardelt was a graduate student.


But the seeds of her interest in the subject may have been planted much earlier. She grew up near Wiesbaden, Germany, where her grandmother and great-grandmother cared for her while her parents worked in a nearby town.


She was closest to her great-grandmother — a wiry, independent, rail-thin woman who helped her husband operate a village tavern and had a reputation for wading into the middle of bar fights and breaking them up.


She has no need for her great-grandmother’s skills as a bouncer. But Ardelt likes to think she reflects her independence.


She is a sociologist in a field dominated by psychologists, who had begun to analyze wisdom in the 1970s as a trend: Weary of focusing on problematic human behaviour, some social scientists decided to analyze psychological attributes.


Experts not always wise


Ardelt took issue with the definition of wisdom that had been devised by the acknowledged leader in the field, the late psychologist Paul Baltes.


Baltes, director of the Max Planck Institute for Human Development in Berlin, said that wisdom was an “expert knowledge system.”


According to Baltes, wise individuals had “exceptional insight, judgment and advice.”


To Ardelt, that definition sounded rigid, too intellectual, and uninspiring, like a musician who played with technical expertise but without passion.


What about being courageous enough to look, unblinkingly, at your own behaviour and flaws? What about being flexible enough to see things from a different point of view? Isn’t that part of wisdom?


Proverbs are fine — but as anyone who has listened to a windy sermon or two can attest, being able to quote from them doesn’t mean you have wisdom.


“You can be an expert, but not necessarily wise,” Ardelt said. “Wisdom only has an effect if internalized.”


Recently a geriatric doctor took Ardelt’s wisdom test and didn’t like the results.


“She said, ‘At my age, in my profession, I should be getting a much better score. There must be something wrong with your test,’ ” Ardelt recalled.
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 Post subject: Wisdom
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:25 am 
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Quote:
Most scholars seek wisdom in folklore, ancient texts and the spiritual visionaries of the ages ... Ardelt ... found wisdom in ordinary folks.


No problem with finding wisdom in ordinary folks. That's what we need to face and deal with : our everyday lives, real problems. However, there is wisdom that can be learnt and not exhausted from past sages, scholars, philosophers, psychologists, leaders. Why reinvent the wheel when there is still much to learn and practice.

Quote:
Self-centredness harmful


I believe that is what many spiritual leaders and philosophers agreed on too. Wisdom also entails applying what is well known and having common sense. Often, things are not as complicated as they appear. Going back to the fundamentals before trying to seek some esoteric answers.

Quote:
Most dramatically, while wise individuals rarely complained and talked often and with obvious delight about the welfare of those they loved during interviews, their low-scoring counterparts much preferred to discuss themselves and their own never-ending catalogue of complaints.


Positive thinking translated into action helps one to deal with problems and turn challenges into opportunities. On the other hand, negative thinking tends to sink one deeper into the quicksand. Believing in negativity can turn it into a reality, and the problems will be magnified many times.

Quote:
“You can be an expert, but not necessarily wise,” Ardelt said. “Wisdom only has an effect if internalized.”


If expertise means having good memory, it is nothing more than being dogmatic. Wisdom is fluid and adaptable. By simply following rules is not enough. Certainly, one must truely understand and appreciate the essence of issues around us.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:16 pm 
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Wise comments, How do you do the quotes?


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 Post subject: Quote
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:59 am 
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Above every new post are icons for bold, italics, underlined, quote, etc, font colour, size. Just highlight the words you want to put within quotes and click on the "quote" box. The phpbb software is user friendly. :D


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 Post subject: Wisdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:08 am 
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Location: Australia
My daughter is wise. When we went for a jog yesterday, she at first wanted to go to a destination some 3 to 4 kilometres away. But after seeing that I was struggling, she said "Dad, I think I have a bit of flay foot, shall we turn back." - this even though she seems to have no difficulty jogging further.

The wise knows what is good in practice. They know the Way - the way to good outcomes. They read situations well, know their own heart, and know the real value of things in life. When my daughter went with me to the phone shop to get a new phone for herself, she got what she wanted in spite of our objection, in spite of having to depend on our approval. She bargained hard with us (with nothing but just sulking it out in the shop), and stood her ground. But now, I think she did the right thing.


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 Post subject: The wise here gives up...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:49 am 
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Hi Sang NIla,

The wise here gives up in life..ha.ha...only accepts and gives in....no need for intellectual thoughts as wisdom and intelligence can assure u of happiness and professional achievements.

regards,

drecl


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:13 pm 
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Wisdom, to be wise, being able to determine a correct action from the surrounding circumstances, being able to avoid unnecessary conflict with the right words and action. managing one's life with the minimum of disruption and in accord with others.

The coordination of knowledge and experience and its deliberate use to improve well being.


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 Post subject: Easy Way to Wisdom
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:31 am 
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Like taiji, one should go with the flow instead of resisting, which not only consumes one's energy, but makes you vulnerable and distracted from the main objective. Some minor things can be forgone for bigger goals. Penny wise, pound foolish best describes how petty people would not rise up to the level of wisdom. How much time is wasted squabbling over unimportant details?

Smart people don't have to fight too hard to get what they want. They use devices at their disposal and surprisingly get the best deal, and the last laugh.
If you can appreciate the teachings of Tao, the way, you would probably envision life from a more philosophical instead of a materialistic perspective; a macro- than a microcosm.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:15 am 
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quote 'Wisdom, to be wise, being able to determine a correct action from the surrounding circumstances, being able to avoid unnecessary conflict with the right words and action. managing one's life with the minimum of disruption and in accord with others. unquote.

Hello, this is my first post here.

Intelligence is largely knowledge, say on a certain subject. Insider trading, for example, is intelligent trading at the market. Jews have for millenniums traveled and traded and became 'clever' because they knew the latest things along the route. Even kings of city states needed them for information. We say they were so intelligent for they knew what 'was about to happen' happened. Since they knew more, they were also able to engineer something to happen. This is all about being clever. You have to be intelligent to be clever.

As to the intelligent trading example - the missing ingredients are fairness, senses of justice, love for one's 'opponent' etc. etc. In a word the absence of 'the excellence of the superior gentleman.'

Wisdom is intelligence moderated by the personal quality termed 'good universal values.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:34 am 
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Welcome to the forum, firefly. On behalf of our active members, I hope you'll have a great time here.

Intelligence could even create "artificial intelligence" to work for human beings. Indeed, intelligence alone is insufficient. Problem solving throws open an array of options. Without wisdom, intelligence would be handicapped from reaping the full benefits to the individual and fellow human beings.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:55 pm 
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The ability to learn from and utilise experience, a keen memory and the ability to recall, creates the mind set of solutions and not problems.


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 Post subject: Wisdom and Intelligence co-exist
PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:47 am 
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Wisdom evolves from intelligence. They both co-exist to a great extent in one’s life. A baby can be born with intelligence but has no wisdom. As he grows older he acquires wisdom in tandem with his increase in intellectual capacity. So a man cannot be wise if he lacks intelligence on which wisdom is built.

Intelligence, however, cannot be created or developed, but it can be influenced or enriched by experience and environment into greater height of wisdom in one’s later life. Its measure is defined by an index “IQ” which is far superior than the “EQ” that some people have recently coined to mean getting along with people around you to be successful in climbing the social ladder. Intelligence has never laid claim to the road for success in material wealth and fame. If one does not have a good “IQ”, obviously one has to fall back on his “EQ” which can be trained and developed.

Great inventions in the world have been discovered by very intelligent people, the scientists, to influence people’s lives, while success by people with high “EQ” only benefits them personally.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:12 pm 
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Maybe we should also ask 'from do thoughts originate?' Thoughts and the source they spring from are related.


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 Post subject: Intelligence's weakenesses
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:34 pm 
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Wisdom to my mind encompasses more than just applying knowledge and being creative and inventive. Most people are gifted usually in a certain aspect of intelligence - artistic, mathematic, scientific, etc. The more fortunate ones with the ability and opportunities to learn could develop other faculties to be all-rounders. With intelligence, many wonderful things could be achieved but wisdom entails moving to a higher or different plane of thoughts in human existence.

In our daily living, we sometimes come across highly intelligent people who do not live a fruitful life. Don't be surprised to find intelligent people who do not think rationally or logically or are misled by prejudices and selfishness that might hinder them from becoming wiser.

It depends on what's one's definition of "success". Material success would be very much restrictive if it does enrich one's spiritual life and the happiness of those around us.

Firefly, could you elaborate on your comment of the source of thought and how it relates to intelligence and wisdom? Do you mean intent and compassion?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:18 am 
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Sure Xp,

So often we say, 'why did I not think of that!' when we suddenly have a solution to a problem.

I was trained in Electricity and Electronics. I learned that there are three properties in electricity, and they are, Voltage, Current and Resistance. There can never be one of the three being left out in planning a circuit. In electronics, we pay more attention to the flow of electrons, and how they are controlled by the three properties.

Many years ago I was wrestling with a problem Christians present as the Trinity. I checked out loads of writings to find a good explanation of the concept; people have got stuck with the understanding that it was after all three gods - some times presented a figure with three heads.

I was writing a book titled 'A Treatise on the old testament.'

Electricity was an unknown phenomenon until contemporary time, and till today nobody really knows what is electricity but that it existed and work. Also many have never thought of using Electricity to demonstrate the Oneness of the three 'properties' of the Trinity.

I do a lot of thinking (akin to mediation) while on my feet, walking for an hour in the garden. Suddenly it struck me that the best way to grasp the trinity principal is the study of basic electricity, paying attention to the three properties - that they are inseparable.

Since I sort of demanded a solution to the question, and my subconscious finally had to show me a way to explain digging into the knowledge I had accumulated, but did not know how to use it.

Anyway, how would you say of my explanation of the Trinity - clever, intelligent or wise?

Or Pure Nonsense - hahahha.


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 Post subject: A good try
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:34 am 
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We learned in school physics how the properties of electricity were related by the equation: I = V/R.

If Trinity can be so simply explained using the properties of electricity, then we can also use equation or formula to relate the properties of Trinity.

No amount of sermons on earth can explain the Trinity. Christians are therefore told to accept it as an act of faith, as their preachers have given up trying to explain to their congregations.

firefly, you had a good try, anyway!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:54 am 
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I showed the electricity principle in that something learned may become the source of a new thought. Someone who never had that knowledge can never say, I wish I had thought of that! He can never have that thought.

So you see, apart from the innate cleverness of a person, he may rise, or fall, depending upon the education he received. And the most crucial education of anybody begins with his mother as the teacher. The baby watches his mother's eyes as he feeds in her arms.

If the family is generous by nature, the child will surely turn out to be generous. I don't think it is in the genes if a person is selfish. If a baby sees his family member frequently reading, he will surely develop a love to read. So on and so forth.

Hopefully, if a child learns to be generous via the family school, this source of thought will temper his relationship with others.

If we see a person being cruel, we know that we cannot trust his family to be kind hearted at the bottom line. So often we see grown-ups misbehave and ignore their elders. There must be stories of unkindness shown to them at a tender age.

Maybe we should investigate this opinion, from whence do thoughts arise.

Incidentally, my wife remarked that her friend said, 'how can the man be taught well when the parents were unpolished?' A certain mother complained her son did not give her an allowance when he started work.


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 Post subject: How to recognise wisdom - by a judge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:23 am 
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A judge in Singapore, the late Mr Lai Kew Chai, once told a lawyer, M. Ravi who was always interrupting when judges gave their decision:

“Once you recognise you are young, that is the beginning of wisdom.”

That was in 2003 on Sep 19 and is as valid as ever.

This being my 500[sup]th[/sup] post, I shall take my leave and re-visit some of the greatest cities of the world.

-


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 Post subject: Take a break
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:49 am 
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Little Egret,
Have an enjoyable holiday. We'll hear your stories when you return.
Bye for now.


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 Post subject: Young and old can be wise
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:37 am 
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Similar principle : “Once you recognise you are old, that is the beginning of wisdom.” In life, the young and old both believe they know more than the other. It is best for them to learn from each other and get the best of both worlds. The young may not get enough experience while the experience of the old may not be relevant to changing times. When we are ill-prepared for the unexpected, then the more painful the blow would be.


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 Post subject: Wisdom?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:57 pm 
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I wonder if somebody as silly as me is qualified to talk about wisdom but all the same, I will give it a go, hopefully I will learn more.

I believe wisdom is about doing things in a way that achieves a desired outcome. We can be wise in small ways (selfish interest) or wise in big ways (for the general good).

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all forumers.


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 Post subject: Intelligence?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:11 am 
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No human could claim to have intelligence in all faculties and wisdom is something to be built over time.


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